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	<title>Comments on: The rise of IE7</title>
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	<description>All you ever needed to know about CSS3</description>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Hibou57</title>
		<link>http://www.css3.info/the-rise-of-ie7-2/comment-page-1/#comment-236718</link>
		<dc:creator>Hibou57</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Apr 2009 15:11:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.css3.info/blog/the-rise-of-ie7-2/#comment-236718</guid>
		<description>Is it because it was paid-for or ad-supported for so long that people have got used to alternatives?

And where do you think FireFox&#039;s funds comes from ? Why do you think Google is the default search engine in FireFox ? Why do you think there are tractations between FireFox and Google ?

FireFox is not less commercial than Opera is. The main difference, is that the FireFix community pretends that FireFox is not commercial (while it is, peoples are paid for the developpement of FireFox), while the Opera team does not lie about it.... a it seems peoples like lies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is it because it was paid-for or ad-supported for so long that people have got used to alternatives?</p>
<p>And where do you think FireFox&#8217;s funds comes from ? Why do you think Google is the default search engine in FireFox ? Why do you think there are tractations between FireFox and Google ?</p>
<p>FireFox is not less commercial than Opera is. The main difference, is that the FireFix community pretends that FireFox is not commercial (while it is, peoples are paid for the developpement of FireFox), while the Opera team does not lie about it&#8230;. a it seems peoples like lies.</p>
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		<title>By: Fabian</title>
		<link>http://www.css3.info/the-rise-of-ie7-2/comment-page-1/#comment-5834</link>
		<dc:creator>Fabian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Feb 2007 18:19:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.css3.info/blog/the-rise-of-ie7-2/#comment-5834</guid>
		<description>&gt; &quot;is this list of sites you “mask” for public?&quot;

Yes, in the profile folder of any Opera installation inspect the file &quot;override_downloaded.ini&quot; to see the downloaded site spoofs. Similarly, in the same folder there resides a file &quot;browser.js&quot; which contains Opera-supplied javascript fixes for many sites.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt; &#8220;is this list of sites you “mask” for public?&#8221;</p>
<p>Yes, in the profile folder of any Opera installation inspect the file &#8220;override_downloaded.ini&#8221; to see the downloaded site spoofs. Similarly, in the same folder there resides a file &#8220;browser.js&#8221; which contains Opera-supplied javascript fixes for many sites.</p>
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		<title>By: David Latapie</title>
		<link>http://www.css3.info/the-rise-of-ie7-2/comment-page-1/#comment-5378</link>
		<dc:creator>David Latapie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Feb 2007 06:42:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.css3.info/blog/the-rise-of-ie7-2/#comment-5378</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t know, since I configured my Opera to identifies as such once and for all a long time ago. If that is the cases (default is now “Opera”), the main interest of my reply would be in historical evolution of Opera adoption. You are right about site-per-site identification.

Does someone has reliable source regarding 10% in Russia?

For something like 6 months, I’m noticing a growing interest for Opera. No doubt its gratis distribution is a major cause for this, but I don’t think this is the only one; rise of alternative browsing sis help too. Considered that way, Firefox is very good for Opera (Microsoft also, since it shipped IE7 five years after IE6).

Since you are talking about per-site preference, I have to tell you about OmniWeb (Mac-only): this is what Opera should have been on Mac (interface/feature-wise; engine is WebCore): first pop-up blocker, first thumbnail preview, first browser with per-site preferences, with a ton of useful features (like remembering window size, so you can safely resize for just one site, workspaces - think upgraded sessions)… And like was originally Opera, it is shareware - 30 separate (!) days for evaluation. And you can still extend the period by downloading the previews. For now, it is using nightly builds of WebCore/WebKit as standard so, compared to vanilla Safari (2.0.4), its standard support is much better.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know, since I configured my Opera to identifies as such once and for all a long time ago. If that is the cases (default is now “Opera”), the main interest of my reply would be in historical evolution of Opera adoption. You are right about site-per-site identification.</p>
<p>Does someone has reliable source regarding 10% in Russia?</p>
<p>For something like 6 months, I’m noticing a growing interest for Opera. No doubt its gratis distribution is a major cause for this, but I don’t think this is the only one; rise of alternative browsing sis help too. Considered that way, Firefox is very good for Opera (Microsoft also, since it shipped IE7 five years after IE6).</p>
<p>Since you are talking about per-site preference, I have to tell you about OmniWeb (Mac-only): this is what Opera should have been on Mac (interface/feature-wise; engine is WebCore): first pop-up blocker, first thumbnail preview, first browser with per-site preferences, with a ton of useful features (like remembering window size, so you can safely resize for just one site, workspaces &#8211; think upgraded sessions)… And like was originally Opera, it is shareware &#8211; 30 separate (!) days for evaluation. And you can still extend the period by downloading the previews. For now, it is using nightly builds of WebCore/WebKit as standard so, compared to vanilla Safari (2.0.4), its standard support is much better.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Gasston</title>
		<link>http://www.css3.info/the-rise-of-ie7-2/comment-page-1/#comment-5358</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Gasston</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Feb 2007 00:17:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.css3.info/blog/the-rise-of-ie7-2/#comment-5358</guid>
		<description>Thanks for a very comprehensive reply, David. Just one point: I don&#039;t think Opera identifies itself as IE anymore, does it? I think it identifies as Opera first, but can identify as IE on a site-by-site basis. You seem to have done more research into it, so I&#039;m prepared to be corrected.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for a very comprehensive reply, David. Just one point: I don&#8217;t think Opera identifies itself as IE anymore, does it? I think it identifies as Opera first, but can identify as IE on a site-by-site basis. You seem to have done more research into it, so I&#8217;m prepared to be corrected.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: David Latapie</title>
		<link>http://www.css3.info/the-rise-of-ie7-2/comment-page-1/#comment-5326</link>
		<dc:creator>David Latapie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Feb 2007 12:56:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.css3.info/blog/the-rise-of-ie7-2/#comment-5326</guid>
		<description>Why is Opera not used so much

1. It sucks on Mac. My favourite browser by far on Windows (Firefox did not existed when I was on Windows) but not a chance on Mac (this would be OmniWeb). Opera 9 is a tad better, but still inferior
2. Opera is targeted at powerusers. The vast majority of Web users are not powerusers.
3. Opera does not have the communication/openness of Firefox or the automatic download/preinstall that IE enjoys.
4. In 1998, Opera gave up trying to compete with IE. They know their money is on embedded stuff. “Desktop” is but a loss leader for “mobile”.

For now, when I want to print a complex layout (dl.run-in dt {display:run-in}, dl.run-in.colon dt:after {content:&quot;: &quot;}. That is  “name: definition”), I use Opera, because it is the only to render it correctly. Opera as a longstanding tradition of great standard support (sometimes, like here, better than Firefox — including latest nightly). Still, how many people needs it? A lot, for sure, but not “enough of a lot” ;-)

=-=-=-=

Jacob Seabrook: some years ago, Jukka “Yucca” Korpela wrote an article about the different rendering in different engines. I can&#039;t remember the page, but I do remember Opera was using the right values until 3.xx, after, it did the same as all the other browser: using its own values. So, for a while, Opera was the reference. Then the market forced it to change, I guess.

=-=-=-=

Six months ago, I wrote a debunking about Opera being underreported. Sadly, it is in French.

http://blog.empyree.org/post/1404

(Google-translated version: http://tinyurl.com/2gaz2x)

To make it short: no, Opera is not underepresented

0. Opera? What’s that
1. Opera? 2% of marketshare
2. Opera is much more, but they indentify themselves as Internet Explorer for compatibility. That’s why they are underepresented
3. Opera substring does show the right information. And serious surveys look at this substring. No underepresentation there.
4. Opera [is] underepresented, but for another reason: a powerful cache (this is Opera’s explanation http://www.opera.com/company/chat/party/ceo/)
5. Serious surveys count only one visit by IP and day, therefore preloading is not taken into account (or so little).
6. Say one searches on Google. All the sites are audited but only one is visited. Opera: one access, Firefox: 10 accesses. Underrepresentation (well, exactly, this is Firefox’s overepresentation)
7. Level 7 anyone?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why is Opera not used so much</p>
<p>1. It sucks on Mac. My favourite browser by far on Windows (Firefox did not existed when I was on Windows) but not a chance on Mac (this would be OmniWeb). Opera 9 is a tad better, but still inferior<br />
2. Opera is targeted at powerusers. The vast majority of Web users are not powerusers.<br />
3. Opera does not have the communication/openness of Firefox or the automatic download/preinstall that IE enjoys.<br />
4. In 1998, Opera gave up trying to compete with IE. They know their money is on embedded stuff. “Desktop” is but a loss leader for “mobile”.</p>
<p>For now, when I want to print a complex layout (dl.run-in dt {display:run-in}, dl.run-in.colon dt:after {content:&#8221;: &#8220;}. That is  “name: definition”), I use Opera, because it is the only to render it correctly. Opera as a longstanding tradition of great standard support (sometimes, like here, better than Firefox — including latest nightly). Still, how many people needs it? A lot, for sure, but not “enough of a lot” ;-)</p>
<p>=-=-=-=</p>
<p>Jacob Seabrook: some years ago, Jukka “Yucca” Korpela wrote an article about the different rendering in different engines. I can&#8217;t remember the page, but I do remember Opera was using the right values until 3.xx, after, it did the same as all the other browser: using its own values. So, for a while, Opera was the reference. Then the market forced it to change, I guess.</p>
<p>=-=-=-=</p>
<p>Six months ago, I wrote a debunking about Opera being underreported. Sadly, it is in French.</p>
<p><a href="http://blog.empyree.org/post/1404" rel="nofollow">http://blog.empyree.org/post/1404</a></p>
<p>(Google-translated version: <a href="http://tinyurl.com/2gaz2x" rel="nofollow">http://tinyurl.com/2gaz2x</a>)</p>
<p>To make it short: no, Opera is not underepresented</p>
<p>0. Opera? What’s that<br />
1. Opera? 2% of marketshare<br />
2. Opera is much more, but they indentify themselves as Internet Explorer for compatibility. That’s why they are underepresented<br />
3. Opera substring does show the right information. And serious surveys look at this substring. No underepresentation there.<br />
4. Opera [is] underepresented, but for another reason: a powerful cache (this is Opera’s explanation <a href="http://www.opera.com/company/chat/party/ceo/" rel="nofollow">http://www.opera.com/company/chat/party/ceo/</a>)<br />
5. Serious surveys count only one visit by IP and day, therefore preloading is not taken into account (or so little).<br />
6. Say one searches on Google. All the sites are audited but only one is visited. Opera: one access, Firefox: 10 accesses. Underrepresentation (well, exactly, this is Firefox’s overepresentation)<br />
7. Level 7 anyone?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Peter Gasston&#8217;s Geek Blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; CSS3 in future Opera builds</title>
		<link>http://www.css3.info/the-rise-of-ie7-2/comment-page-1/#comment-4748</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Gasston&#8217;s Geek Blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; CSS3 in future Opera builds</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jan 2007 23:10:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.css3.info/blog/the-rise-of-ie7-2/#comment-4748</guid>
		<description>[...] I&#8217;ve said before that I think Opera is a great browser, and I&#8217;ve started using it more for my day-to-day browsing. They have a web developer toolbar, which is one of my biggest demands, but Firefox still edges it for me as the range of extensions makes all the difference. But if you haven&#8217;t tried Opera already, you should think about giving it a go. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I&#8217;ve said before that I think Opera is a great browser, and I&#8217;ve started using it more for my day-to-day browsing. They have a web developer toolbar, which is one of my biggest demands, but Firefox still edges it for me as the range of extensions makes all the difference. But if you haven&#8217;t tried Opera already, you should think about giving it a go. [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: CSS3 . info - &#187; CSS3 in future Opera builds - Weblog</title>
		<link>http://www.css3.info/the-rise-of-ie7-2/comment-page-1/#comment-4476</link>
		<dc:creator>CSS3 . info - &#187; CSS3 in future Opera builds - Weblog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Jan 2007 16:15:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.css3.info/blog/the-rise-of-ie7-2/#comment-4476</guid>
		<description>[...] I&#8217;ve said before that I think Opera is a great browser, and I&#8217;ve started using it more for my day-to-day browsing. They have a web developer toolbar, which is one of my biggest demands, but Firefox still edges it for me as the range of extensions makes all the difference. If you haven&#8217;t tried it already, you should think about giving it a go. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I&#8217;ve said before that I think Opera is a great browser, and I&#8217;ve started using it more for my day-to-day browsing. They have a web developer toolbar, which is one of my biggest demands, but Firefox still edges it for me as the range of extensions makes all the difference. If you haven&#8217;t tried it already, you should think about giving it a go. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Joost de Valk</title>
		<link>http://www.css3.info/the-rise-of-ie7-2/comment-page-1/#comment-4239</link>
		<dc:creator>Joost de Valk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Jan 2007 15:20:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.css3.info/blog/the-rise-of-ie7-2/#comment-4239</guid>
		<description>Hi David, nice to see you drop by here :) is this list of sites you &quot;mask&quot; for public?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi David, nice to see you drop by here :) is this list of sites you &#8220;mask&#8221; for public?</p>
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		<title>By: David Storey</title>
		<link>http://www.css3.info/the-rise-of-ie7-2/comment-page-1/#comment-4238</link>
		<dc:creator>David Storey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Jan 2007 14:54:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.css3.info/blog/the-rise-of-ie7-2/#comment-4238</guid>
		<description>Hi Peter,

Thanks for the kind words about Opera.  It is a mystery why many of your sites are showing no Opera users. In general we are seeing Opera take up increase since we went free and Opera 9 came out.  There is a list of sites that we &#039;mask&#039; as another browser, and it may be possible some of your sites are on this list.  These are sites that we get sent broken code for, so identify ourselves as another browser and completely remove &#039;opera&#039; from the UA string.  It may also be that there have been issues in Opera on the pages in the past, so users haven&#039;t came back.  

Of course, if there are any issues with Opera on your sites, I&#039;ll gladly look into them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Peter,</p>
<p>Thanks for the kind words about Opera.  It is a mystery why many of your sites are showing no Opera users. In general we are seeing Opera take up increase since we went free and Opera 9 came out.  There is a list of sites that we &#8216;mask&#8217; as another browser, and it may be possible some of your sites are on this list.  These are sites that we get sent broken code for, so identify ourselves as another browser and completely remove &#8216;opera&#8217; from the UA string.  It may also be that there have been issues in Opera on the pages in the past, so users haven&#8217;t came back.  </p>
<p>Of course, if there are any issues with Opera on your sites, I&#8217;ll gladly look into them.</p>
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		<title>By: Jacob Seabrook</title>
		<link>http://www.css3.info/the-rise-of-ie7-2/comment-page-1/#comment-3783</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacob Seabrook</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Jan 2007 11:14:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.css3.info/blog/the-rise-of-ie7-2/#comment-3783</guid>
		<description>oh yeah. i get it. lol sorry

i will try doing this and see if i can get all the margins back to were they are for the elements concerned</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>oh yeah. i get it. lol sorry</p>
<p>i will try doing this and see if i can get all the margins back to were they are for the elements concerned</p>
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